won't stay running after start

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won't stay running after start

Postby backyardbill on Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:23 am

Gentlemen,

I'm new to this group. I just bought a 1980 Spider that needs lots of work, but, I am not in a big hurry. I car has not been driven since 1994. The PO tried various things to get it back on the road, but ultimately was unsuccessful. I have the full factory service manual set (which is very good about how to take everything apart, but doesn't go into theory of operation).

Current status: repaired and flushed gas tank. New fuel filter. New fuel pump. turns over freely.

I am keeping a photo journal, have a look: http://www.glocktech.net/fiat

I'm currently on Day 4.

The engine won't stay running without the help of the cold start valve, which was jerry-rigged so it could be triggered from the drivers seat by grounding a wire.

Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

Backyardbill
Gina: 1980 Fiat Spider, 99% done
Mods: rear stereo, Michigan short shifter, 1955 Chevy mirrors. Lic plate in rear bumper. Custom center console and switch pod
Connie: 1992 Kawasaki ZG1000
Other: 1973 Fiat Spider 1608, 5speed, yellow. Regretfully sold 34 years ago.
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Re: won't stay running after start

Postby So Cal Mark on Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:39 am

You're going to need the FI troubleshooting manual to make life easy. Since it's been sitting that long, you could have a problem as "simple" as the injectors stuck shut. You'll have to find out if they're pulsing while it's running on the cold start injector. The injectors get power from the dual relay and ground through the ecm.
Mark Allison
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Re: won't stay running after start

Postby pope on Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:08 am

Hey Bill,
I recognize that garage, are you in Texas?

10 months of working to get that car started is to long. Wish you had come sooner, but welcome. You seem very adept at pictures, which we all love here. How about a series of pics of your engine and the dreaded override of the cold start valve. My suggestion is that we get your wiring back to factory before we start to diagnose your problems.

Welds on the cross member worry me a little as there must have been a reason why that was needed and its never a good one.

Excellent journal. Hopefully we can help you with day 5.

The ECU (computer) is under the glove box. It is analog and therefore unprogrammable. The power to the Fuel injection elements comes for the brown wire attached to the battery in the trunk. The injectors have a constant power supply going to them and the computer adds or subtracts the ground for each one to get it to operate.
'80 F.I. Fiat Spider
Motown
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Re: won't stay running after start

Postby baltobernie on Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:33 am

pope wrote:Welds on the cross member worry me a little as there must have been a reason why that was needed and its never a good one.

We recently had a club member who spent thousands on a restoration, only to find his PO-repaired cross member was "too little, too late". With a defective cross member, the unibody begins to deform. The car is being scrapped, as the camber cannot be shimmed anywhere close to spec.

I'd suggest an alignment inspection before continuing onward. You may need to provide additional welded support to that area, too. I hope the outcome is favorable, because you've got an otherwise decent project car. Good luck!
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Re: won't stay running after start

Postby backyardbill on Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:49 am

Yes, Dallas, Texas. Note: I added engine bay photos to Day 4.

Whoops, I had the wrong start date on the web site it is Dec 2009, not Feb 2009. I just bought the car a week ago.

Yes, I am going to rewire the cold start valve back to the original after I get it to run and idle.

I will also deal with the lower control arm welds later on after completely measuring the chassis to verify correct alignment.

I am going to pressure test fire the injectors and verify spray pattern before reassembly, tomorrow. That is if the wife doesn't get on my back, it being Christmas Eve and all.

Yes, I know, I have a LOT of work to due to bring this baby back to road worthy life.

FYI: this is my second Fiat Spider. I has a 1973 model, 30 years ago. It ran like a Bat-Outa-H*ll. I loved that car. And now I have high hopes for my new 1980 fuelly.
Gina: 1980 Fiat Spider, 99% done
Mods: rear stereo, Michigan short shifter, 1955 Chevy mirrors. Lic plate in rear bumper. Custom center console and switch pod
Connie: 1992 Kawasaki ZG1000
Other: 1973 Fiat Spider 1608, 5speed, yellow. Regretfully sold 34 years ago.
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Re: won't stay running after start

Postby ga.spyder on Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:42 pm

Hey Bill .
First off,welcome to the forum! The pictorial of youre resto progress is great.Here is a link to a outstanding Fiat f.i. troubleshooting guide that most of us have used at one time or another
http://www.wcmotors.com/personal/Fiat%2 ... agnostics/
It is easy to follow and results are guranteed. :D There are some experts here on f.i. issues so answers will be forthcoming. Good luck and keep us posted.
Craig
Craig Nelson
FLU board of directors
1982 Spider 2000...pride and joy
1981 Fiat X1/9..gone but not forgotten
1976 124 Spider..the self-healer
2001 BMW 328ci daily driver and track car
Fling It Around Turns !
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Re: won't stay running after start

Postby htchevyii on Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:25 pm

There's a fix if the crossmember bolts are stripped that includes thru bolts with a crush sleeve thru the frame rails. I believe head bolts work well. I think Matt has the info on the procedure, (should be a thread somewhere). Many are reinforcing new crossmembers before install, even my 48K Spider had some cracks. Good luck with your new car.
Trey
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1982 SPIDER 2000, 1964 CHEVYII, 2005 DODGE RAM, 2002 pt cruiser, 1988 Jeep Comanche
1972 Spider, 78 Spider rat racer
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Re: won't stay running after start

Postby backyardbill on Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:10 am

Thanks all for the followups and tips. I am going to work on the cross member problem after getting it running and driving it around a little to check the drive train. I like the thru bolt plan and will research it.

For today, I am working on cleaning and firing the fuel injectors. (Until my wife comes in the garage to get me for Christmas eve duties).

Merry Christmas to you. :D
Gina: 1980 Fiat Spider, 99% done
Mods: rear stereo, Michigan short shifter, 1955 Chevy mirrors. Lic plate in rear bumper. Custom center console and switch pod
Connie: 1992 Kawasaki ZG1000
Other: 1973 Fiat Spider 1608, 5speed, yellow. Regretfully sold 34 years ago.
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Re: won't stay running after start

Postby backyardbill on Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:14 am

Gentlemen,

Check Day 5 updates please. Is the exhaust cam sprocket mounted too far forward, as shown in Img 5.6 and 5.7?

Thanks
Gina: 1980 Fiat Spider, 99% done
Mods: rear stereo, Michigan short shifter, 1955 Chevy mirrors. Lic plate in rear bumper. Custom center console and switch pod
Connie: 1992 Kawasaki ZG1000
Other: 1973 Fiat Spider 1608, 5speed, yellow. Regretfully sold 34 years ago.
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backyardbill
 
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 5:16 pm
Location: Texas

Re: won't stay running after start

Postby pope on Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:31 am

What I cant see is if the left cam sprocket is wider than the right.
If they are the same width, then yes, the left one is sticking out too far. You can see a wear indicator on the cam sprocket where the belt had been running.

It almost looks like the sprocket was installed on the camshaft without the pin being inserted correctly in the sprocket. Which would put the timing off.
'80 F.I. Fiat Spider
Motown
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Re: won't stay running after start

Postby backyardbill on Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:08 pm

Eureka! The Fiat is now running!

The main problems were: stuck fuel injectors; huge crack in the underside of the intake air hose; loose connectors; FI idle screw out of wack; coolant hose Tee installed backwards; totally fouled spark plugs (with different heat ranges); etc.

The next step is to pull the radiator (again) to fix the leak at the upper hose port.

After that: drive it around the block a few time to check out the clutch and tranny.

Thanks for all the help.
Gina: 1980 Fiat Spider, 99% done
Mods: rear stereo, Michigan short shifter, 1955 Chevy mirrors. Lic plate in rear bumper. Custom center console and switch pod
Connie: 1992 Kawasaki ZG1000
Other: 1973 Fiat Spider 1608, 5speed, yellow. Regretfully sold 34 years ago.
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Location: Texas

Re: won't stay running after start

Postby rlux4 on Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:53 pm

Another Fiat back on the road! Good going Bill. Thanks for the update.
Ron
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lux2n2@gmail.com
'82 2000 Spider: after 26 years between Spiders.
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Re: won't stay running after start

Postby ga.spyder on Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:57 pm

All right! Outta the back yard and onto the highway :D
Craig
Craig Nelson
FLU board of directors
1982 Spider 2000...pride and joy
1981 Fiat X1/9..gone but not forgotten
1976 124 Spider..the self-healer
2001 BMW 328ci daily driver and track car
Fling It Around Turns !
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