Pinion nut removal

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Joeype70
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:27 pm
Your car is a: 1979 Pininfarina

Pinion nut removal

Postby Joeype70 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:28 pm

Hi all, i am trying to remove the pinion nut and man im struggling. I have the wheels on the ground and using a breaker bar and no luck, i even tried some heat. Any suggestions to help get this baby loose? Feels like theres atleast 100lb of torque, shouldn't it be between 14-17 lbs? Its a 79 Pininfarina spider. Thank you.

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riverdadd
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:16 am
Your car is a: 1975 Fiat Spider 1977 Alfa Spider

Re: Pinion nut removal

Postby riverdadd » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:58 pm

try attaching breaker bar to nut and roll car forward ( or backward) depending on which way you want to turn pinion nut. this may give you the advantage you need to break it loose. i think the spec is 87 - 166 ft lbs


just a idea. I have had to get creative a time or to in order to make things work out

good luck

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riverdadd
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:16 am
Your car is a: 1975 Fiat Spider 1977 Alfa Spider

Re: Pinion nut removal

Postby riverdadd » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:01 pm

i had another thought, and maybe someone else can confirm...... make sure its not a reverse thread...... some things are "righty loosey"

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hayesbd
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:20 pm
Your car is a: 1973 Spider
Location: Newark, Ohio, USA

Re: Pinion nut removal

Postby hayesbd » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:11 pm

The rolling torque of the pinion should be from 14 to 17 inch-pounds and to achieve this, the pinion nut is tightened anywhere between 87 and 166 foot-pounds of torque. Note the different units. The wide range of pinion nut torque is due to the fact that there is a collapsible spacer between the pinion bearings which deforms in order to get the correct rolling torque.

The shop manual shows a nice fixture to allow for a good grip on the drive flange once the drive shaft is removed. This could be a home made spanner type wrench to provide a nice way of reacting the torque so you don't damage gear teeth. I wouldn't recommend using an impact wrench for this, either. My spare does not have threads on the pinion that come out past the nut, so I cannot state definitively that the nut is right handed, but nothing in the shop manual states that it is left handed so I would bet it is.

Hope this helps.
Brian
Current: 1973 124 Spider
Previous: 1961 600D, 1970 850 Racer, 1973 124 Special, 1974 124 Special TC

Joeype70
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:27 pm
Your car is a: 1979 Pininfarina

Re: Pinion nut removal

Postby Joeype70 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:28 pm

Thanks for the information. I couldnt get it off today. I tried everything, breaker bar with good leverage, heat, PB blaster but nothing. I will try again tomorrow. She is really on there.

DieselSpider
Posts: 1419
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:21 pm
Your car is a: 1978 124 Spider with Isuzu Turbo Diesel

Re: Pinion nut removal

Postby DieselSpider » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:01 pm

Unfortunately sometime when its that bad you have to use a locking device on the yoke and use a big impact wrench especially if someone uses a high speck LocTite on it. I have a good sized one that puts out between 600 and 700 ft lbs that I use only when all else fails and only for breaking things loose.

Joeype70
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:27 pm
Your car is a: 1979 Pininfarina

Re: Pinion nut removal

Postby Joeype70 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:24 am

Its looking like impact gun is the only way to go!!

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azruss
Posts: 3612
Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 12:24 pm
Your car is a: 80 Fiat 2000 FI

Re: Pinion nut removal

Postby azruss » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:33 pm

I just did my diffy. should be a standard righty-tighty thread. I had to tighten mine to 166 ft-lbs.

Joeype70
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:27 pm
Your car is a: 1979 Pininfarina

Re: Pinion nut removal

Postby Joeype70 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:09 pm

166 wow, wonder if my whining will go away once i can get this off and replace the seal and re-tighten her up?

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Odoyle
Posts: 215
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:06 pm
Your car is a: 1983 Pinafarina Spider

Re: Pinion nut removal

Postby Odoyle » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:07 am

Replacing the rear seal will most likely not solve whining in diff, could be the diff going or bearing wear, do you use EP 80/90 oil? Also are both of your long trailing arms straight? If one is kinked that can lead to accelerated wear in diff.

bluespider262
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 11:14 am
Your car is a: 1979 Spider

Re: Pinion nut removal

Postby bluespider262 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:36 pm

Getting it off is easy.

You need to plan out how you are going to get it back on properly before you jump in here. You'll need some sort of jig to hold that yoke. Do you have that or the skills to make something?

Joeype70
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:27 pm
Your car is a: 1979 Pininfarina

Re: Pinion nut removal

Postby Joeype70 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:09 pm

I did use 80/90 hp, trailing arms not sure what those are. As far as getting it back i marked everything and counted the threads. However, I have not taken it off yet. Jig wise i have not made anything, i was trying to remove the nut with the tires on the ground. I got plenty of pressure on it with an extended pry but it obviously was not enough. I know the torque should be from 88 to 166. I was asking about the whining because my question is, say the nut is on at 166lbs ft, would there be change in sound say i torque it at 130 or 140 or 100? I would of course put it back as close to where it was but i am just curious as to how the pressure of the nut torque would or could affect anything in a positive or negative manner.

DieselSpider
Posts: 1419
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:21 pm
Your car is a: 1978 124 Spider with Isuzu Turbo Diesel

Re: Pinion nut removal

Postby DieselSpider » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:51 pm

Here is a fairly good piece on the different types of differential noises and their causes. Note that howling/whining is a gear alignment issue from a loose pinion, loose carrier bearings causing the gears to whine or worn gears. If the pinion is whining while tightened to spec chances are that the shims need to be adjusted to align it with the ring gear if the gears have not already worn too far.

"Diagnosing Rear Differential Noise

There are various situations which can create rear differential noise. For example, howling of gears is a sure sign of wearing. If you notice that the howling noise only occurs during deceleration, then it is a good indicator that the pinion-bearing preload has loosened.

Howling under acceleration at various speeds, however, indicates that the gears are already worn out or are out of alignment or depth with each other. If rear differential noise occurs while accelerating the car only at a certain speed, it is likely because the gears have become worn due to overloading and lubrication failure. If your gears are newly installed and still create a howling noise, double-check its preload and make sure that the teeth are properly aligned.

Rumbling and whirring noises at speed over 20 mph, moreover, can be the result of worn carrier bearings. For vehicles with C-clip axles, the rear differential noise may change at different turns. Generally, worn out pinion bearings can create whirring noises at various speeds, be it may during deceleration and/or acceleration. If the pinion bearings are the problem, they create more of a whirring noise than a rumble because it turns several times faster than the carrier assembly. Regular clunking every few feet can also be an indicator of a broken pinion gear and/or chipped and damaged ring gear.

Overly worn out bearings tend to make a howling noise when they do not properly support the gears. Rumbling while turning, on the other hand, is a sign of bad wheel bearings. Clunking and banging noises on the corners can be due to lack of sufficient posi-traction lubrication, broken spider gears, or worn posi-traction or limited-slip clutches. Broken spider gears, moreover, can also immobilize the differential and create a loud, crunching sound during final departure. If the rear differential noise is characterized by clunking every two or three feet, then there is a great chance that a broken ring gear is the problem with the section with the broken teeth banging or grinding as it tries to engage the pinion.

Having a chipped or missing high spot on a gear tooth sounds closely similar to a broken gear except that the rear differential noise only happens while accelerating or decelerating. This is because the problem is just present on one side of the offending tooth. This rear differential noise is described as a heavy clicking type of sound which occurs every eight feet or so. If the pinion is the one that has a high spot, the noise occurs every two or three feet and is much more pronounced because of its higher frequency."

Joeype70
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:27 pm
Your car is a: 1979 Pininfarina

Re: Pinion nut removal

Postby Joeype70 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:03 am

Thank you for the awesome information diesel!!!

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RRoller123
Posts: 6920
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:04 pm
Your car is a: 1980 FI SPIDER 2000
Location: PLYMOUTH, MA USA
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Re: Pinion nut removal

Postby RRoller123 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:21 am

+1 on that, very good info!
'80 FI Spider 2000 (rolling "resto")
'74 X1/9 (many years ago)
'79 X1/9 (fewer years ago)
'86 Jaguar XJ6 (2nd Hobby Car)
2011 Chevy Malibu (daily driver)
2010 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Ext Cab 4WD/SB
2015 Keystone Montana High Country 343RL


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