"Strut tower" rust

[Vancefish]

Hello all,

So, I've said hello in the intro section. Basically I'm attempting to get my mothers 75 spider back on the road. It was "restored" back in the late 80's. I say "restored" because I think some corners were eliminated altogether, verses simply being cut.

Behind the drivers side wheel, where the shock and spring slide up into the "strut tower" (for lack of a better term). There is a lot of rust. Last night after getting it home I was laying in the street looking at her belly. Admiring her cracked, nearly evacuated bushings (which I have replacements already). When I noticed what looked like a soft spot about 2" above the upper control arm front bushing.

I proceeded to mash at this area using the plastic handle of a screw driver until I'd mashed out everything that would dissolve under light impact. I came around the back doing the same thing finding it closer to the upper control arm rear bushing. Only about 1-1.5" between the rot and that bushing.

I was freaked out seeing this! However then I went around to the other side to look for the same issue over there, and found my step father had obviously seen this before. As a lot of this side had been knocked out (as I'd just done) then hit with a coat of Rustolium YEARS ago.

So, The metal edge on that upper drivers side rear bushing is the smallest support structure point at 1.5-ish inches of metal remaining. It feels pretty thick, as if the rusted away portion was mostly protective sheet metal, verses the stonger thicker suspension support area the bushing bolts to.

I've got some great pics but can't figure out how to post them here. My neighbor just brought her dog with an eye infection over to see my dogs. So I don't have time to figure it out right now. Need to disinfect my dogs NOW!

[azruss]

go to a site called Hosting Bytes 2.0. this is a free photo loader. upload the pic, then copy the first link and paste it in here. BTW, if your pix is wider than 700 pixels, it will not fit on the page and you will only see a partial picture. hope the mutts are ok

[Vancefish]

Thanks Azrus

I do not like having my pictures spread across 30 web sites these days. Seems like every time I post on a new forum I have to register for multiple sites, and they are never the same. God only knows where all our information is going or ending up these days.

Here's the front:



Here is the back side, and the worst of it.

[Vancefish]

AND,.. Sorry to be edgy. It's not you guys I swear! LOL It was that neighbor that got me riled up!

I have never done any welding. However I'm not unwilling to try almost anything. I have a buddy who has been a mechanic for many years (Blind since he was 1 year old too!) He can loan me his welder. LOL I solder for a living, I hear it's similar, just hotter and brighter. If that's the case, a few practice runs and I'll be off! If my blind buddy can do it, I'd guess I could too! Just need to find some decent eye protection.

Anyway, any advice would be great. Sorry again for my edginess!

[Vancefish]

Well after a few searches into this issue. I'm guessing my mothers car will soon be the poster child of what you DON'T want to buy!

Good news is,.. I didn't buy it!

Bad news is,.. My mother wants it fixed, and I just got $900 worth of parts from Auto Ricambi. It might turn out to not be worth it though. I'd hope we could return the uninstalled parts. We'll have to see what one of you guys think.

The engine runs SO smooth and makes the nicest sounds. The interior is SO nice. I'd just hate to see her scrapped.

[124JOE]

dont do it save this baby
she NEEDS YOU

[narfire]

Looking at the rust on the towers,I'd consider replacing them. Yes it is alot of work but they would be strong and one would not have to worry if the patchwork is holding ect. There are several cars being parted out so good replacements should be available. Several weekends I'd think would have it covered.
Perhaps some here have done the swap and can chime in as to the degree of dificulty,time required , tools...
Chris

[Vancefish]

So, here's a pic looking down (where your head won't fit) at that rear bushing area of the upper control arm. You can see the pin inside there from this angle.



Narfire,

I wondered if this might be an option. Question comes down to HOW are those done? Is it an inner and outer fender creating that tower? Or is it supported by a frame structure I can't see (and might be talking about replacing)? The rusted metal area we're looking at seams kinda flimsy in the first place. Making me think it may just be part of the inner fender?? Maybe? Thus bolted to the Firewall, frame and radiator support?

Sorry to ask, I'd just prefer to know what I'm aiming at here.

I DID just find a person selling a set in the for sale area. Looks like just welding the entire area into the inner fender. I replied to the post.

Now off to break the news to my mother, and get more funding. After I get done, it'll be like a new car AGAIN,.. again, again.

[Vancefish]

OK, so I found the towers on this site, here's the link.

http://www.fiatspider.com/f08/viewtopic ... 11&t=14953

Although not perfect, the side with the hole is pretty minor. and could be repaired before installing.

The question really comes down to,.. Has anyone done this, that can give me a breakdown?

On my mothers car, the wheel wells were painted with thick paint. Making my view of HOW these are welded on somewhat limited. Being sheet metal, and not having an obvious bead, makes me think they may be spot welded???

If they are spot welded, These will be a breeze (ish). I'd be confident enough in my abilities to not worry about it.

My mother is sending money for the parts, my mechanic buddy and my mother think maybe we should find a pro for the welding . I'd just like to know if I'll need to pay a welder to do this. Although I'm willing to try. If I got it wrong It'd be a shame.

Well, All advice is welcome.

Thanks again all

[seabeelt]

Vancefish, You definitely need to replace the shock toweres. I'm sure many folks here can tell you the hazards of not doing so. A couple of things to consider. The only similarity between soldering and welding is that you are using heat and metal wire to join two other pieces of metal. Otherwise they are not the same. If you plan on doing this yourself you need to practice welding first. You will need a welding helmut for eye protection. One of the main points here is that it is easy to " burn through" the metal on the fiats as it is relatively thin. (hense the practice) Second, fiat 124's items for sale are cut from the car and you will need to remove the iner fender pieces before welding to your car. These things are spot welded to death on the inner fender and frame rail, so you will need to spend quite a bit of time with a drill and spot weld cutter or drill bit to nicely remove the old ones ( and backs of the replacement ones (if used)) Take a lot of measurements to relative pieces (up, down, front, back) so that the new one goes back in the same place as this affects your front alignment posture. If you want to purchase new ones, they can be had at one of the vendors for around $270 each. Here is a good link for welding: http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/. And you should also find the alignement diagram/measurements for the car. I thing you can search it here on the site .
Good news is, some of us have done this before and you have plenty of support for your project..
r/

[azruss]

this is a nasty job, even for the veterans. welding is one thing. welding that particular part in that location is a completely different beast....and i mean beast. there are no good weld angles, you are in where you cant see and move around. if you dont have a rotessiere, you better be a first class welder. once you start burning holes, you just get yourself in deeper and deeper. practicing on a nice clean sheet of metal out in the open will just give you a false confidence. As others have said. location needs to be dead on. i'm not sure how you would measure to get the fit. everything will have to be stripped from the inner fender so you dont melt any wiring and relays. the majority of the work is in removal. do yourself a favor and do the grunt work yourself to save money, but farm the welding out to someone who knows what they are doing. BTW i've never seen a dash like that. is it stock?

[Vancefish]

Your thinking the same thing as me Azruss. The more I look at it, and think about it, the harder it looks to me. Although a million spot welds sounds easy, this is not a Jr. High Shop class toolbox we're talking about. I'm going to do some hunting for someone local who's dealt with this before. I can strip it down to get to it, even prep the replacement. Question comes down to, just HOW sure am I of my welding?

The dash is custom. Designed and built by my mother and step father. About the third design actually. The upper vinyl, just over the wheel is dried and split as well. (although VERY easy to change). It is using all the OEM style guages. The wood USED to be real, and 1/4 inch thick. What's in it now is cheap laminate. I'd like to replace that. My step father and I built some 505 all wood sail boats a few years back. That knowledge could be used on this dash. Layering thin epoxy coated sheet into a mold to curve as this cheap stuff does.

We'll see.

[Vancefish]

Oh, and good news is, my step father WAS a good electrician/electronics engineer. (Simply NOT a very good body man!) He rewired this entire car years ago, attempting to stash as much wiring as he could inside plastic wire conduit wrap. I'm pretty sure this car has only one "harness" running along the Drivers side. I think two on the passenger side. then brake lines and such other stuff. Not much compared to my Honda though.

[SLOSpider]

Well here is my thread of when I did mine with a used set:

http://www.fiatspider.com/f08/viewtopic ... ock+towers

Then shortly after a dog decided to take out my grill and left front fender. Im on the fence to do the fender but I have spent ALOT of dollars on this car already. I do have a good 77 if someone wants a package deal on a set of Spiders with rebuilt engines and a set of dual webers!

Its not an easy job but not impossible. ANd you will probably need some rust repair as mine did on the frame rails. Sometimes its like opening a can of worms but atleast you cant spend your money on booze or drugs

[Vancefish]

Thanks SLOspider,

That's a great example thread! I actually feel much better now, It's always nice to know your not alone.

I really don't think this looks to bad. I am still thinking of finding a good welder, versus me learning on this job. Otherwise I think the remainder is mine. No issues.

Thanks again SLOspider